MALT Lymphoma

After many years of H.pylori infection a cancer can develop in the stomach. This is particularly common in Latin America and Asia (esp. Japan). It is believed that lifelong inflammation of the stomach lining causes low acidity which then allows carcinogens to be active in the stomach. These then cause stem cells (part of the healing process) to mutate and become cancer cells.

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Helico_expert
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Re: MALT Lymphoma

Post by Helico_expert » Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:12 am

There is no guideline to prevent H. pylori infection.
Usually the route of transmission is via kissing or unhygienic toilets.
Some people believes you can catch H. pylori from polluted water source, which I do not believe.

H. pylori survive poorly outside human body. It has always been a challenge for researchers to culture H. pylori in the laboratory. Many laboratories in the world, especially the developing ones, do not have the capability in culturing H. pylori. The reason is because H. pylori require special medium to grow and they grow extremely slow. Usually when the biopsy is taken out, and if not send to the laboratory within 1 hr, the success rate of culturing drop significantly, even if it is stored in the fridge.

In the stomach, H. pylori is the only organism that survive. There is no competition. When it's outside the stomach, because of the slow growing, it can be out compete so easily by other microbes.

In addition, there are so many articles out there that show that H. pylori can be killed by salt, vinegar, honey, chili, broccoli, sugar, etc etc. They are all true. H. pylori is even sensitive to oxygen. It has to live in a micro-aerophilic condition, where CO2 level is high. All these show that H. pylori survive poorly outside human body and one cannot simply catch H. pylori from the environment.

Nevertheless, there are far more other terrible pathogen out there that people should be aware of. especially those who likes to eat raw food, including vegetables. Listeria for example, survive in the fridge and commonly spread in raw vegetables. That's why pregnant women should avoid raw salads to avoid catching Listeria that can cause miscarriage.

ML-HELLico_Bacttle
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Re: MALT Lymphoma

Post by ML-HELLico_Bacttle » Tue Oct 22, 2019 2:09 am

Dear Helico_expert:

Half a year after I hope everything is fine with you.

My new endoscopy is coming on 4th November.
If H. Pylori grew back then I will only have PARC as last resort, if I can convince my oncologist to try it, that is. Otherwise they'll offer me Radiation for the MALT, which I'm not prepared to take…

All these months I have based my daily care on what you wrote on your last message.
I still eat partially raw — because I just love it & feel it's good for me — and tho I always previously wash & dip every exposed raw veggie in diluted vinegar I haven't been so concerned that H. Pylori can survive in anything unless it has been exposed to saliva or faecal matter for less than an hour.
This has made my daily routine less haunted.

On the other hand after the 3rd line my nervous/mental state has been terrible & there have been time it was really hard to control my anger towards everything that makes me lose time. I lost my patience many times.
This might be related to the changes in my MicroBiome which, by ignorance, I also helped like eating 2 tablespoons of coconut oil per day for the monolaurin. That fed certain bile-eating species of the pathobiome. Everyday I'd be bloated & started having Hydrogen Sulfide gas, which I had never had before. I assumed that such inflammatory-like state could not only be unhealthy as it could lead to something more serious.
As always there is so much lack of updating in the medical community that I had to figure out for myself, as usual. It's SIBO. I have been able to reverse the situation through diet alone but I'd need a deeper treatment if I didn't have more H. Pylori "adventures" comin' up…

In fact: I remembered & confirmed that my own father always had these symptoms but no one knew about SIBO when I was a kid and today he is having the 2nd chemo for colon & liver cancer…
IF ANYONE EVER READS THIS & HAS THESE GUT SYMPTOMS (LIKE BLOATING & VERY BAD SMELLY GAS) PLEASE GET TESTED FOR SIBO! Don't assume it's "normal" & please warn other people alike!

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I have also strengthened other hypothesis about my health among which these might have a relationship with H. Pylori:

- My stomach might have an adhesion to my diaphragm.
The anxiety/stress builds up this pressure on my chest which makes my breathing shallow and also has some impact on my oesophagus. This is how Hiatal Hernias start. This stomach pulling technique has been a very noticeable relief!…

- Something has been depleting my body from magnesium.
It's the one & only supplement that has a UNDOUBTABLE effect. It's amazing on my energy & muscles!
After May I spent several weeks exchanging emails in order to find a clinic that could make me the cheapest but also safest CBCT. It turns out that, as I expected when I had several teeth extracted, my sinuses had a MASSIVE bone reabsorption and now I need sinus lift for implants…
I'm still trying to figure out if I have been deficient or excessive calcium but the symptoms of hypercalcemia have been winning… I might have been deficient in K2, at least.
Do you know of any relationship between H. Pylori & these 2 minerals?

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Regarding your last message:
Helico_expert wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:12 am
In the stomach, H. pylori is the only organism that survive.
I had read in some studies that Lactobacillus rhamnosus GG (ATCC 53103) can also survive in the stomach. He was actually used to stunt or prevent H.P.'s growth.

Helico_expert wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:12 am
H. pylori is even sensitive to oxygen.
Makes me want to swallow air…

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I hope it's Ok to say this but I accidentally listened to an interview you gave to a podcast :)
Among other things I recognised all the things you have taught me.
Regarding what you said:

01
Can my type of H. Pylori be the European virulent strain or could it be the normal one but my immune response is just too weak?
Some of my white & red cells keep dropping…

02
Have you, in the meantime, ever reached some hypothesis regarding the reasons why there's 1% of people that get stomach cancer due to H. Pylori?
I still don't know if my atrophic gastritis is autoimmune.

03
You mention this breath test to diagnose H. Pylori that involves a radioactive capsule = 1H Sun exposure.
I guess the breath test I have made involves a solution of 13C-urea & citric acid. Is this less trustworthy?

04
Is it safe to have contact with cats & dogs?
You start by saying that the only stomach that H. Pylori can colonise is the human but then later you say that people should not share food with their pets. This sounds quite funny, actually. I'm sure any dog or cat food brand has already made an advert featuring someone who can't resist the pet's bowl…

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Re: MALT Lymphoma

Post by Helico_expert » Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:55 pm

I had read in some studies that Lactobacillus rhamnosus GG (ATCC 53103) can also survive in the stomach. He was actually used to stunt or prevent H.P.'s growth.
I heard about this long time ago. It may be successful to a few people, but probably not the majority. Otherwise, it will be mentioned in big conferences and trial everywhere.
Makes me want to swallow air…
hahaha... to be precise, it actually needs high concentration of carbon dioxide. Saying that it is sensitive to oxygen is actually misleading. please accept my apology. People seems understand better when I say it is sensitive to oxygen. The message I want to deliver is that H. pylori cannot survive well outside human body. In vitro, almost anything is fatal to H. pylori. eg. Salt, Garlic, Honey, Broccoli, Chili, Vinegar, hot temperature, etc.. It is very unlikely to be transmitted via contaminated water, cooked food and soil.
Can my type of H. Pylori be the European virulent strain or could it be the normal one but my immune response is just too weak?
Some of my white & red cells keep dropping…
to date, many virulent genes have been discovered from H. pylori. But none of them is correlated to disease outcome. So, it is very difficult to understand what is "virulent" in vivo.
In research field, we generally classify those that carry CagA toxin as more virulent strain because they kill stomach cells faster in the laboratory. But that doesnt mean all CagA toxin carrier will cause cancer. Some cancer patients also carry CagA negative strains.

Have you, in the meantime, ever reached some hypothesis regarding the reasons why there's 1% of people that get stomach cancer due to H. Pylori?
I still don't know if my atrophic gastritis is autoimmune.
Actually, this is what happened when you are infected with H. pylori
step 1. H. pylori extract nutrient from your stomach cells
step 2. your stomach cells are not happy and release signal to recruit immune cells.
step 3. your immune cells cannot see H. pylori as H. pylori is like ninja, good in hiding away from immune cells.
step 4. your immune cells get stressed as the stomach cells keep releasing stress signal. so your immune cells started destroying everything. Hopefully by chance, H. pylori can be destroyed.

now, there are three scenarios.

Scenario A
the mucous secreting cells get destroyed. no more mucous protection. stomach acid start digesting your own stomach. this lead to stomach ulcer.

Scenario B
The acid secretion cells get destroyed. no more acid secretion. this can lead to atrophic gastritis. microbiome start growing in the stomach. some carcinogen can accumulate in the stomach.

Scenario C
the damage is so severe, the repair by cell duplication is too slow. Stem cells start gathering from other body parts. Intestinal stem cells is usually the cells gathering there first. So your mucous producing cells and acid producing cells are slowly be replaced by intestinal cells. This lead to intestinal metaplasia or atrophic gastritis.

when H. pylori is killed. the immune cells will gradually retreat. then your stomach can gradually recover.
IF there is enough acid, some of these intestinal metaplasia cells will get destroyed by acid and healthy stomach cells will slowly replace them.
IF there is not enough acid, then microbiome and carcinogen can start accumulate and some of these intestinal metaplasia cells will become cancerous, because they are constantly mutating trying to fit in the stomach.

So, which scenario you will end up is up to your immune response. If you have weak immune response against H. pylori, you are more likely to end up in Scenario A and B. If you have strong immune response against H. pylori, you are more likely to end up in Scenario B and C.

As you aged, you are more likely to progress from Scenario A to B and from B to C.
Young people, probably around 20s-30s, are more likely to be in Scenario A
Middle age people, probably around 30s-50s, are more likely to be in Scenario B
Senior people, probably above 50s, are more likely to be in Scenario C

Also, as people are getting better diet and nutrient, it is more likely to have strong acid secretion. Acid secretion is very important in preventing gastric cancer. So even if we do nothing to the infected population. Having fresh food and healthy diet is enough to decrease gastric cancer rate.

You mention this breath test to diagnose H. Pylori that involves a radioactive capsule = 1H Sun exposure.
I guess the breath test I have made involves a solution of 13C-urea & citric acid. Is this less trustworthy?
C13 and C14 breath test are equally good. C13 is more expensive than C14. There is a lot of bad publicity about C14 because of marketing. There is no evidence that C14 is harmful. The dose of C14 is so little.. it's like an hour air plane flight. The potassium in your bones are generating 100x more radiation than a C14 breath test.
Is it safe to have contact with cats & dogs?
H. pylori is very host specific. In 1983, Prof. Marshall tried to infect many animal models to prove that H. pylori is the cause of gastric disease. But no animal can be infected by H. pylori. That's why he drank the H. pylori himself.

Then thanks to genetic sequencing, we found that many animals carry their own helicobacter species, different from human. they rarely cross infect each other unless the host are closely related. For example, the cat, dog and rat can share similar species as we know, they have been living closely together.

Some pig farmers are infected with Helicobacter suis due to close contact with the pigs.

SARS was orginated from flying fox
HIV was originated from Chimpanzees
and so on...

So given enough time of exposure, the pathogen can evolve and jump host.

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Re: MALT Lymphoma

Post by mitul_108 » Wed Oct 23, 2019 1:08 am

when H. pylori is killed. the immune cells will gradually retreat. then your stomach can gradually recover.
IF there is enough acid, some of these intestinal metaplasia cells will get destroyed by acid and healthy stomach cells will slowly replace them.
IF there is not enough acid, then microbiome and carcinogen can start accumulate and some of these intestinal metaplasia cells will become cancerous, because they are constantly mutating trying to fit in the stomach.

So, which scenario you will end up is up to your immune response. If you have weak immune response against H. pylori, you are more likely to end up in Scenario A and B. If you have strong immune response against H. pylori, you are more likely to end up in Scenario B and C.

As you aged, you are more likely to progress from Scenario A to B and from B to C.
Young people, probably around 20s-30s, are more likely to be in Scenario A
Middle age people, probably around 30s-50s, are more likely to be in Scenario B
Senior people, probably above 50s, are more likely to be in Scenario C
Means if we try to boost immunity by taking multivitmin tablet can be risky?
Should we take Vitamin C , B12 and Vitamin A or NOT???
Immune cells may over react..

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Re: MALT Lymphoma

Post by Helico_expert » Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:27 am

is multi-vitamin really boosting immune response? I think a lot of these vitamin thingy is just marketing. We have more than enough vitamin from fresh fruits and healthy diet.

I dont think you can swing your immune response by diet, unless you are allergic to particular food. Then your body produce a lot of immune cells against it.

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Re: MALT Lymphoma

Post by mitul_108 » Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:14 am

You means it's not easy to swing immune system.
And none vitamin can alter immune response??

Taking vitamin is not helpful in HP like condition.

We should not take it...Right.

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Re: MALT Lymphoma

Post by Helico_expert » Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:22 pm

multi vitamin supplement may be helpful to some minority who really need it. But to the majority population, multi vitamin is not going to be helpful.

Nevertheless, multi vitamin is harmless and most of it is going to be excreted via urine anyway. If you feel good taking it, do continue doing so.

ML-HELLico_Bacttle
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Re: MALT Lymphoma

Post by ML-HELLico_Bacttle » Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:52 pm

Dear Helico_expert:

Yesterday I had the the 2nd endoscopy of the year.
Just to remind: the April one, in which 11 fragments were collected, had biopsies reporting H. Pylori was negative.
The 3 Issues:

H. Pylori:
We'll only know after the new biopsies are ready, tho fewer fragments were collected this time…

MALT:
The white scar/stain is still on the Corpus Greater Curvature although, I was told, a tiny bit less. The Oncologist always told me that if my MALT was related to H. Pylori it'd take 1 year to clear up. I have watched Stanley Falkow's 2010 video about cagA which emphasises that HP's virulence interactions & cancer take decades to develop. 1 year doesn't seem to be much time…

Atrophic Gastritis:
My atrophic Fundus, as always, remains unchanged.
I'm now starting to suspect — and please correct me if my assumption is wrong — that I've always had an autoimmune AG & that this was THE major factor for H. Pylori's overgrowth among other underlying psychological implications which led me to being today this complete failure, a walking pile of unbelievable frustration.

I have also found out that there had been a misunderstanding all this time:
the longitudinal ulceration referred on 1st endoscopy of May 2017 was not the typical ulcer that H. Pylori provokes in those who have sufficient stomach acid; It was actually the Lymphoma itself.
So now the former confusion about your 3 scenarios ceased to exist. I'm definitely on Scenario B or C.
By the way: does MALT belong to any of those scenarios or do they all refer to metaplastic cells that derive from Atrophic Gastritis?

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IF there is not enough acid, then microbiome and carcinogen can start accumulate and some of these intestinal metaplasia cells will become cancerous, because they are constantly mutating trying to fit in the stomach.
What carcinogen are referring to?
Pathobiome endotoxins?
There are people on PPIs for years!...

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So, which scenario you will end up is up to your immune response. If you have weak immune response against H. pylori, you are more likely to end up in Scenario A and B. If you have strong immune response against H. pylori, you are more likely to end up in Scenario B and C.
Some of my immune cells have been dropping below normal parameters.
But is it then better not to stimulate immunity?
What does having a MALT mean in terms of immune response? Weak or Strong?

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Also, as people are getting better diet and nutrient, it is more likely to have strong acid secretion. Acid secretion is very important in preventing gastric cancer. So even if we do nothing to the infected population. Having fresh food and healthy diet is enough to decrease gastric cancer rate.
It's surprising to read you about Nutrition > ; D
In conventional medicine Nutrition usually means very little…

What you say about acid secretion as prevention for stomach cancer is very very curious and this is probably my most important question now:
On one hand it seems obvious that people with Atrophic Gastritis should take a hydrochloric acid (+ pepsin) supplement.
On the other: if the parietal cells have been replaced by intestinal stem cells won't this very acidity make them mutate & become metaplastic?
If stomach acidity would destroy these metaplastic cells & replace them with healthy stomach cells then why aren't the parietal cells replaced by these in the 1st place?

Thank you.

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Re: MALT Lymphoma

Post by Helico_expert » Thu Nov 07, 2019 1:09 pm

The questions are getting deeper and harder to answer
:p

MALT is like over grow and over active immune cells gathering at the lymph nodes, causing it to swell. Getting rid of H. pylori has good chance of reducing the immune cells and the swelling will go away, MALT will recover.

Carcinogen could be smoking, fermented food, or substance that produced by bacteria.

should atrophic gastritis patient take HCl tablet to maintain acidity? very good research question and I have not seen such study done. Perhaps while gastric cancer risk is low and preventable by endoscopy, taking HCl tablet have higher chance of getting reflux that can lead to other problems.

why is metaplasia cells not replaced by parietal cells? honestly I have no idea. It's probably more to do with chance? or cell division. Perhaps it is more likely that the epithelial cells surrounding the metaplasia cells progress and replace the gap. In addition, if you go look up the physiology, the parietal cells are mainly on top of the stomach (The fundus). the acids are secreted from top and then flow downwards.

Lastly, Prof Marshall always prescribe Vitamin C (250mg daily) to atrophic gastritis patients. There are studies that show that Vit C can have some protection against stomach cancer.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4945984/

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Re: MALT Lymphoma

Post by ML-HELLico_Bacttle » Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:53 pm

Dear Helico_expert:

I'm sorry that my questions were harder... Neither I find an MD that is not stuck in obsolete protocols/knowledge nor I have a salary to pay for a good Functional Medicine Practitioner so I have no other option but to investigate & make the best of what I can r€ach...

I have learned very much over the last months.
I now see that H. Pylori can only become a pathogen due to the convergence of other imbalances such as Microbiome, Stress, SIgA level, etc.. And this, along with genetics, is probably one of the main reasons behind antibiotics failure. It's all InterConnected.
There are many stool & urine tests out there that I wish I could afford. I'm sure they would reveal that A LOT has gone wrong with me over the last years. Seeing a faecal test listing of the Microbiota strains one has is super-fascinating!

MALT is like over grow and over active immune cells gathering at the lymph nodes, causing it to swell.
I guess it makes sense with my childhood Asthma & my frequent Fight-Or-Flight mode, but not so much with the downward tendency of white cell count.

taking HCl tablet have higher chance of getting reflux that can lead to other problems.
Yes, acid reflux is possible with HCl supplementation if your oesophageal valve, which is acid-sensitive, has been opened for too many years of low stomach acid. But it might be temporary for this valve needs to be retrained.
Low stomach acid causes such a BIGGER array of problems… The lack of defence barrier against pathogens we swallow, the putrefaction of animal protein, the lack of amino-acid absorption & it's implication on neurotransmitters, the absence of signalling to the GallBladder to release bile & the Pancreas to release enzymes, the loss of control over the amount of bacteria in the Small Intestine which can lead to SIBO, Leaky Gut & MANY autoimmune conditions…
And so I was very happy to read you that good stomach acidity can also help prevent metaplastic cells.
We all need the most & lowest_pH acidity in our stomachs. That's how Nature designed us.

I'm glad to know that Dr Marshall prescribes Vitamin C for Atrophic Gastritis.
However, and with all due respect, 250mg daily is a surprisingly low dose.
The body only absorbs around 15% of certain common sources of C. Only Liposomal C can grant a higher absorption.
A relevant dosage is for instance 1g of some Ascorbate 3x a day. C is one of those vitamins that the body needs A LOT of.

Do you see that most people with H.P.-related Atrophic Gastritis have only the Fundus atrophic or does it also affect the Corpus?
As previously registered here I've done 3 rounds of antibiotics but my Fundus remains atrophic. So I'm still not sure whether my AG is autoimmune or H.Pylori-related.
By the way: In AutoImmune AG only the Parietal Cells, which make the Hydrochloric Acid, are destroyed by antibodies so there is no need to supplement HCl WITH Pepsin.
However, in HP-caused AG I imagine that EVERY CELL where the bacteria might be hidden is attacked as a desperate way by the blinded immune system to get rid of it. So the Chief Cells, which are right next to the Parietal Cells and produce the Pepsinogen, would also be destroyed.
Is this correct?
If it is therefore one with HP-related AG SHOULD acquire the Betaine HCl WITH Pepsin.

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